CO129-351 - Public Offices - 1908 — Page 645

I honourable Member who introduced the subject did not, I think, quite understand the position of the Foreign Office when he criticized the action of the Shanghae municipality, nor did he give the credit deserved to the British members for the abolition of opium dens in the purely British Settlement. In the second place, it is not possible for me to control the action that may be taken by the British Settlements. They have considerable freedom of action. Even the Local Government Board at home cannot dictate to municipalities like Glasgow and Birmingham, or other great towns, in the conduct of their own affairs; and my position towards British municipalities in the East is even more vague and undefined than is that of the Local Government towards municipalities at home. And with regard to Shanghae, the only municipality about which criticism has been passed, I would point out that Shanghae is an international Settlement as well as a British Settlement; and though, no doubt, there is a large British majority on the Council, this is a matter to be decided, not only by the Council, but also by the rate-payers, among whom are a large number of Americans and people of other nationalities. But the municipality has promised to reduce the opium dens by a quarter within a month or so, with a view to bringing the whole to an end in two years. My honourable friend read an extract to show that this was not decided; but my information has led me to suppose that that is the definite intention. I cannot give an absolute promise about something not within my entire control; but we have already expressed our opinion as to what, for the credit of the British, the action of the municipality should be, and I will certainly do my best to ensure that what is, at all events, a tendency shall become a definite intention and be realized in two years. (Hear, hear.) Though the native dens are closed as opium dens, the Chinese are not prohibited from selling opium. Therefore, it is unfair to contrast the action of the municipality with the action taken in the native city as if the sale of opium was prohibited altogether there. I believe it is very desirable that in the international Settlement the opium dens should come to an end, and that not only should the Chinese precept but the Chinese practice be followed. There is the Chinese point of view to be borne in mind, and the Viceroy of Nanking, the great Chinese official, has expressed his gratification at the action the Shanghae municipality has taken; so that the Chinese recognize that, though their action may not have gone as far at present as could be desired, yet they have shown a desire to help the Chinese. (Hear, hear.) My honourable friend who moved the Resolution asked me about the Commission which the United States has proposed and about the delay. It is not our Commission, but the proposal of the United States. We have asked what the date and time and place of meeting are to be, and until we have a reply from the United States it is impossible to give more information on the subject. But we have not waited for the Commission as regards any action of our own. Our action will be quite independent of whether the Commission meets soon or late. (Hear, hear.) I am not sure, looking back over the experience of years, that we should not hope as much from a purely British Commission or purely British action as from an International Commission or an International Conference. With regard, however, to this Commission which the United States has proposed, we do welcome the proposal, and we will do everything in our power to assist, support, and co-operate. The noble lord who spoke opposite laid stress on the fact, and I think quite rightly, that it was desirable that the diminution of consumption in China should progress alongside of the diminution of the export from India. There are, no doubt, people in China who do not wish to see the consumption of opium diminished. There are people there who would hope that, by the diminution of the import of opium into China, they themselves might be able to create a monopoly and make larger profits. There are people of that sort in every country. (Cheers.) I certainly should not like to see the opium question in China turned into a branch of Chinese tariff reform. Though I agree that we ought not to make the shortcomings of others in any way an excuse for lowering our own standard, I think, also, it is common sense in this matter that when we are diminishing the export of opium from India to China with the object of bringing it to an end altogether, we should in everything we do help the Chinese, not merely to get rid of the import, but to get rid of the consumption of opium in China itself. That has been one of the considerations borne in mind by my noble friend the Secretary for India. Progress has already been made in some parts of China. No doubt the Decree has not had the effect which the Chinese Government hoped. China is a vast country comparatively loosely organized, and undoubtedly in China itself the Decree of the Chinese Government has not yet had the effect that it ought to have had in diminishing the growth or diminishing the consumption of opium. Considering all the circumstances, what strikes me is not the small result obtained, but the amount of good result which has been obtained in China in so short a time. Let us bear in mind the difficulties of the Chinese Government. They are enormous. They are undertaking the greatest task a Government can undertake. The most difficult task, I think, anybody can undertake is to put an end to a habit. To attempt to put an end to a national habit in ten years was an effort which, as had been said, and justly so, any European Government would have been unwilling to face. One or two honourable Members had asked whether China was in earnest. The Chinese Government and the best people in China at all events were in earnest. (Cheers.) There is a strong party of progress, but undoubtedly there is a party of the other way of thinking. That is not peculiar to China. When any one tries to put down an abuse, a party, and sometimes a strong party, at once arises to defend the practice and to protect it. (Lord Balcarres here interjected a remark.) If the noble lord chooses to put a special application upon my words he is welcome to do so. (An honourable Member: "He has Chinese on the brain.") Of course, whenever you raise such a question the question of confiscation arises. Any Government which tries to put down an abuse will have great difficulty in doing so. The question is—there being two parties in China—on which side are we to be so far as our action is concerned? (Cheers.) Of course, if you take the point that no progress has been made you can make that an excuse for doing nothing. If you wish to help China, you can make that a justification for what we have already done and may be able to achieve in the future. I should like, in conclusion, to give the House a quotation from a Decree issued by the Chinese Government on the 24th March last, which is not included in the papers before the House. It is a somewhat remarkable Decree and recognizes what the British Government has done and the difficulties the Chinese Government has to face. "We have already directed by Imperial Decree that regulations should be issued under which the use of opium, both foreign and native, should be totally suppressed within the period of ten years.

The British Government have now agreed to effect an annual reduction in the amount of opium exported to China, and other friendly Powers are willing to assist. This enlightened policy on their part has greatly impressed us. Under the Agreement with the British Government the reduction of the exports is to be continued for three years, and if it is found at the expiration of that period that China has effectively decreased the consumption and production of opium the policy of reducing the exports will still be carried on. To allow these three years to slip by without taking measures for the abolition of the drug would be a poor return for the benevolent policy of a friendly Power and a deep disappointment to philanthropists of all nations." (Cheers.) I think that is a remarkable statement and an entire justification for what the British Government has done and a fair statement of the actual situation. They recognize what we have done to help in the matter and their responsibility, and it rests with them to secure the effect that they desire. The honourable Member who seconded the Resolution spoke of the future of China. I agree that it is a most interesting question, not merely from this point of view. With regard to reform in China, the question is: Are we sympathizing with her or do we begrudge and hinder her? Our desire is that the Chinese make progress. They may feel that we sympathize with them to the full step by step. On this question, at all events, we have produced that result already. Whatever party differences we may have on other questions—and I am sorry if anything I said seemed to introduce party feeling into this debate—I leave them entirely to other questions and ask the House of Commons to accept this Resolution and to show that on this question it is unanimous in supporting the action the Government have taken. (Cheers.)

The motion was then unanimously agreed to amid cheers. The House adjourned shortly after 11 o'clock.

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